Ryan Cassata and Izzy Heltai join Proud Radio with Hunter Kelly, who celebrates trans and non-binary artists in country music, in honour of International Transgender Day of Visibility. Izzy Heltai discuss coming out as trans, writing songs to make people feel less alone, and finding therapy through music. Ryan Cassata talks about the role of social media in the trans community, coming out at a young age, and the message behind “Daughter,” “Jupiter,” and more. The full episode is available on-demand at apple.co/_ProudRadio on Apple Music Country.
Ryan Cassata on the song “Daughter”
I honestly did not think that this song was going to be popular at all. I actually thought that the trans community was going to hate it, because in the lyrics, I said things that a lot of trans people are often uncomfortable to say out loud, or they don’t relate to it. And that’s totally okay. And I was writing from my personal experience about my dad and somehow that connected with so many other trans people all around the world. It was incredible. I mean, I still, every single day, receive messages about the impact of the song on trans people. Also, I’ve had parents come up to me at shows and be crying like, “That song is what made me accept my child.”
And a lot of young trans people show the song to their parents either as a way of coming out or as a way of saying to their parent, “I am the same child,” and something about the song relays that message to the parent and they’re able to have a shift in their thinking and come around to accepting their transgender child. And I had no idea when I wrote that song. I wrote that song in less than 10 minutes, and I recorded it in a garage. You never know.
And a lot of young trans people show the song to their parents either as a way of coming out or as a way of saying to their parent, “I am the same child,” and something about the song relays that message to the parent and they’re able to have a shift in their thinking and come around to accepting their transgender child. And I had no idea when I wrote that song. I wrote that song in less than 10 minutes, and I recorded it in a garage. You never know.
Ryan Cassata on Seminary, spirituality and being an activist
I go to Pacific School of Religion, which has been incredible it’s so, so, so queer friendly and I am learning so much and I’ve been very spiritual the last seven years since I got sober and reconnected with a higher power and all of that. And religion was something that caused a significant amount of pain in my life as a queer person. And I was like, “What can I do in the world?,” one, to be a better activist, and two, like “What could I do to help the trans community and the LGBT community to heal some of that hurt?” And part of that starts with learning the language, and that’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m learning so much, I’ve read over a thousand pages since the beginning of February, it’s probably 1500 now and it’s great. I love reading. I’m a pretty quick reader, but I’ve already noticed that I have become more woke and I know more words now, and I know more phrases and I am becoming a better activist. And right now I literally feel, I’m at 10% and I feel like I have so much to learn and I’m so willing to learn and spend the time doing it so that I could be better in the world and stand up for justice in a more efficient way.
Ryan Cassata on being out as trans person at 15 and going on Larry King
Throughout this past year I’ve processed a lot because there’s been more time and it’s come up in my music a lot. There’ll be a lot about my experience as a younger trans person being out on my next album too. And I’m so grateful that I am driven and that I am brave and that I was able to use my voice. And I do have a certain amount of privilege as well and that has pulled me to be part of the movement in the way that I am. And I am glad that I took hold of that and did go on the show.
I have no regrets that I went on Larry King when I was 15 years old and I went on that show, that I became an adult and things were drastically different. The way people treated me in school was different. Not just because now I’m out as trans, but because people want to know someone, quote famous unquote. There’s violence that comes along with it. And there’s a fear and a hyper vigilance and all that stuff of being out so young at a time when trans stuff was not accepted like it is right now.
I have no regrets that I went on Larry King when I was 15 years old and I went on that show, that I became an adult and things were drastically different. The way people treated me in school was different. Not just because now I’m out as trans, but because people want to know someone, quote famous unquote. There’s violence that comes along with it. And there’s a fear and a hyper vigilance and all that stuff of being out so young at a time when trans stuff was not accepted like it is right now.
Ryan Cassata on how social media plays a positive role in the trans community
Social media, I think is probably the biggest molding glue for the community. After I went on Larry King, social media is how a lot of people connected with me, and then I was able to connect people together. We had a meetup in New York City and we had like 30 trans people and allies come, in 2009, or whatever that was. That was a lot of trans people in one place.
We were young, we were teenagers. So, it was a lot. People came from all over the East Coast. Even now, I see… I know two trans people that met on one of my live streams, and they’re like 13 years old, and they’re best friends now. And it’s like, that’s the power of social media is that people are able to connect and find their best friend that’s like them and someone they relate to and could share anything with, you know? And I think it’s such a beautiful thing. And YouTube has definitely… That’s been probably the mainstream way of sharing for the trans community. Since it’s come out, since YouTube’s come out, it’s just connected a lot of people. I still have friends that I made on YouTube.
We were young, we were teenagers. So, it was a lot. People came from all over the East Coast. Even now, I see… I know two trans people that met on one of my live streams, and they’re like 13 years old, and they’re best friends now. And it’s like, that’s the power of social media is that people are able to connect and find their best friend that’s like them and someone they relate to and could share anything with, you know? And I think it’s such a beautiful thing. And YouTube has definitely… That’s been probably the mainstream way of sharing for the trans community. Since it’s come out, since YouTube’s come out, it’s just connected a lot of people. I still have friends that I made on YouTube.
Izzy Heltai on transitioning and having support
I figured out that I want to transition and this is who I was pretty early on in my life and was fortunate enough to have access to the things I needed and due to the support of my friends and family to physically transition. For me, transitioning was a part of feeling comfortable in my body. I know some of your listeners can’t see me, but it’s like, I am a very presentable and palatable version of what people want to see a trans man as. And I love talking to people about it, but I also always love to mention that I’m still like this cis-passing straight white guy looking. So it’s like I still am a very privileged side of this experience. But then on the flip side, I am trying to be better about being like, “Yes, I had all the support and my parents were incredible, but there were really, really hard years and it took us a lot of time to get to where we are today.”
But yeah, I came out when I was 14 or 15. My parents were super proactive in getting the education they needed. And keep in mind, this was, I think, I want to say 2011, 2010. So even though it wasn’t that long ago, there was really practically no mainstream visibility. This was before Laverne Cox’s Time article came out. And as problematic as she was – not Laverne Cox, but the Caitlyn Jenner story – it’s very problematic, but that was a huge turning point for trans representation in mainstream media
But yeah, I came out when I was 14 or 15. My parents were super proactive in getting the education they needed. And keep in mind, this was, I think, I want to say 2011, 2010. So even though it wasn’t that long ago, there was really practically no mainstream visibility. This was before Laverne Cox’s Time article came out. And as problematic as she was – not Laverne Cox, but the Caitlyn Jenner story – it’s very problematic, but that was a huge turning point for trans representation in mainstream media
Izzy Heltai on trans identity in songwriting
They are these songs that were written at the beginning of me figuring out that I want to do this with my life. And so I was 23, which I think for anyone’s life these are really formative years. And so it made sense that the subject matter was a little more, or there’s a little more severity in the songs and the subject matter themselves. And I was also figuring out exactly what I wanted to sound like craftsmanship-wise. Actually, what I want to be making right now.
Now let’s start talking about a lot of other nuances in the world that are bigger than me. Or maybe not about this time in my life. It opens me up beautifully because I got to talk about being trans in a really organic way, in a way that made it not feel like my music was all about that. And now it’s out there and people can be really open to asking me whatever they want. But it’s not really going to be in my songs going forward, probably. Because at this point in my life, gender identity really isn’t something I think about.
Now let’s start talking about a lot of other nuances in the world that are bigger than me. Or maybe not about this time in my life. It opens me up beautifully because I got to talk about being trans in a really organic way, in a way that made it not feel like my music was all about that. And now it’s out there and people can be really open to asking me whatever they want. But it’s not really going to be in my songs going forward, probably. Because at this point in my life, gender identity really isn’t something I think about.
Izzy Heltai on using his privilege to support trans visibility
At this point in my life, I do want to be really vocal about it, because I have such a privilege. That it can be safe and vocal, because, like I said, again, for those that cannot see me or haven’t seen a picture of me, it’s like I am fairly cis-passing. I just look like just your standard, like white guy hipster. And I have a support system and I live in a part of the country that I’m in no danger talking about it. Because I know there’s so many people in situations that are not that, and can’t talk about it openly. I want to be able to talk about it, yes, so anyone can feel a little bit less alone, because visibility. We need visibility.
Izzy Heltai on coming out as trans
I’m super comfortable talking about my trans identity, I love it, but there was a long time when I was a teenager that I really was ashamed of my identity, where it’s like I’d gotten all these tools and I passed as a cis-gender man, especially when I was late teenager, early twenties. And so I went kind of back into a closet in a way, where I really wanted to be stealth. And for those of you or the listeners that are not familiar with that vernacular, stealth is a transgender person that feels comfortable not really disclosing that they’re trans day to day, who passes as cis-gender and does not really talk about their identity. Which is great, but for a long time, I wanted that so much. And as I started growing, I really realized that it was ingrained in just a lot of self-shame. And that I felt ridiculous, myself, that it was like, “Oh, this society stripped an authenticity from me for so long in my youth and now I’m letting them do it to me again.”
But now because I pass as cis-gender I don’t know how to come back out in my working professional career because really, I just love my songs. So to talk [about this] stuff was just me literally trying to figure out where the line was because, also as a singer, I make my living and my career is I’m trying to build it on being vulnerable and letting people see parts of myself.
But now because I pass as cis-gender I don’t know how to come back out in my working professional career because really, I just love my songs. So to talk [about this] stuff was just me literally trying to figure out where the line was because, also as a singer, I make my living and my career is I’m trying to build it on being vulnerable and letting people see parts of myself.
